which uograde, $ for $

[kyle06786]

i dont want this to turn into a huge debate, but i have a feeling it will. i want to no $ for $ the best route to go. heres the choices. we have our ra gear sets, i dont know the exact price right now, some where around 1600 i believe. than we have the m factory gears, slightly more expensive in the 2300 dollar area, and than we have the sti 6 speed swap, for amounts im not sure of , but in the area of 5000 im told. all these are choices to upgrade to from my stock 5 speed, and gain the strength i would like to see. im sure theres some other options as well, but these, after doing some searching, seem to be the most popular.lets for now forget about the ra gears, and assume i went with a m factory gears, 2300 dollars. lets say in the area of 1500 to have them installed?? sounds fair. So we can say m factory set up installed will run from 3k-3800 in that area, if im wrong correct me, this is still a little new to me. so for 3800 vs. a min. of 5k for a 6 speed swap, what kind of strength will i see in comparison to the 6 speed. i dont need 6 speed performance, as much as i need a strengthend transmisson. The m factory gears will increase the strength and the acceleration rates, with a loss on the top end though. So to me it seems like $ for $ the m factory gear set might be a great choice, compared to a couple thousand more for the 6 speed swap.... im just trying to get honest information and opinions, good hard info, not the usuall " just go with the 6 speed " or " why not just go for a 6 speed " thanks guys

[subydude82]

6 speed. You can find them used anywhere from 2500 - 5000. The 6 speeds get expensive if you swap in the R180 rear diff, 04 hubs, brembos and so on, but you can keep your stock R160 if you buy a 06-07 STI tranny. Or if you buy a 04-05 tranny you can have 3.90 gears installed in your R160 rear diff for like $400.00.

[gling]

No matter what you spend for the five-speed box, it'll be down the drain when it breaks. Of course, this depends on how you drive. I'm not bashing the five-speed boxes but they are definitely weaker no matter what gearsets you get. However, the six-speed box isn't without flaws or weaknesses as well.

Regardless, I made a few posts in this thread (http://www.ctsubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4895&highlight=speed+transmission+swap) about compatibility and required parts if you want to do a six-speed swap. I got my full six-speed driveline swap parts minus Brembos used for $3750 a while back. One has just got to be patient and look around a bit; I swapped a working five-speed box out for my six-speed box. Since you also still have a working five-speed box, use it to your advantage.

P/s: There is no harm in a good discussion/debate; in fact, it brings a lot of good. It is when curiosity is lost, and things taken in absolute that we should start worrying.

[Aperture]

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why do people waste their fucking time or money splitting cases, swapping gearsets, getting bullshit cryotreated, etc?

If you REALLY need to upgrade your tranny, get a six speed or STFU.

[yaya20]

Good info in here already... listen to gling.


Be kind to your 5MT, Save up, shop around, and get a 6MT.

You can find good deals on 6 speeds, it's even better when you can resell your good 5MT after the swap.

(I paid 3500 shipped for my JDM V8 6MT with compatible R160)

[chompy]

someone really likes 6 speeds....

[Aperture]

As for why:

in the 6-speed, you're dealing with a transmission that was designed from the GROUND up for performance. It was designed to hold power, designed to be driven by an enthusiast, and it's PROVEN TO TAKE THE POWER. The whole design is superior to any other WRX, LEGACY, or RS transmission out there.

The weakness of the 5 speeds isn't just in the gearset. It's also in the casing, and input shafts.

This is one of the reasons I hate the Subaru community as a whole (this is not at all aimed at you Kyle or anyone else on THIS website). They are always looking for the cheap and easy fix, something that will get them the performance to impress people on the internet they don't know, RIGHT NOW!~

Sure you could spend the 2500 on the new gearsets, but you're dealing with an aftermarket frankenstein. You've got something that was designed as an afterthought, and trying to improve on an already shit design. That's been proven time and again. Five speeds wrx boxes/gearsets break. The STi 6 speed doesn't. What about this M gearset you speak of? How proven is that design? If it breaks, what happens? You're going to upgrade to an STi Driveline because you'll be sick of the bullshit. WHen you could have just saved $2500 and DONE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

This community needs more DO IT RIGHT, THE FIRST FUCKING TIME.

I realize this turned into a bit of a rant, and again, it isn't aimed AT you, but your reading it will only help you.

DO IT RIGHT THE FUCKING FIRST TIME. DON'T CUT CORNERS, DON'T CHEAP OUT, and your car WILL have more uptime as a result.

If your car currently runs fine, and the 5speed is fine, and this is just for the purpose of planning ahead to avoid driveline failure (which is SMART!, good job!!!!) then you have NO REASON to cheap out. Keep an eye on and take care of your 5speed for the time being, and save, and keep your eye out for a deal. Use the fact that you're ACTUALLY thinking ahead to your advantage!

[subydude82]

^+1! That is how I roll aperture. Do it right the first time.

[gling]

As for why:

in the 6-speed, you're dealing with a transmission that was designed from the GROUND up for performance. It was designed to hold power, designed to be driven by an enthusiast, and it's PROVEN TO TAKE THE POWER. The whole design is superior to any other WRX, LEGACY, or RS transmission out there.

The weakness of the 5 speeds isn't just in the gearset. It's also in the casing, and input shafts.

This is one of the reasons I hate the Subaru community as a whole (this is not at all aimed at you Kyle or anyone else on THIS website). They are always looking for the cheap and easy fix, something that will get them the performance to impress people on the internet they don't know, RIGHT NOW!~

Sure you could spend the 2500 on the new gearsets, but you're dealing with an aftermarket frankenstein. You've got something that was designed as an afterthought, and trying to improve on an already shit design. That's been proven time and again. Five speeds wrx boxes/gearsets break. The STi 6 speed doesn't. What about this M gearset you speak of? How proven is that design? If it breaks, what happens? You're going to upgrade to an STi Driveline because you'll be sick of the bullshit. WHen you could have just saved $2500 and DONE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

This community needs more DO IT RIGHT, THE FIRST FUCKING TIME.

I realize this turned into a bit of a rant, and again, it isn't aimed AT you, but your reading it will only help you.

DO IT RIGHT THE FUCKING FIRST TIME. DON'T CUT CORNERS, DON'T CHEAP OUT, and your car WILL have more uptime as a result.

If your car currently runs fine, and the 5speed is fine, and this is just for the purpose of planning ahead to avoid driveline failure (which is SMART!, good job!!!!) then you have NO REASON to cheap out. Keep an eye on and take care of your 5speed for the time being, and save, and keep your eye out for a deal. Use the fact that you're ACTUALLY thinking ahead to your advantage!

While not the way I would have described it, but I share similar sentiments. Though, there are some that choose the five-speed box over the six-speed box for weight reasons. The six-speed box is a good 100 lb. more (dry) than the five-speed box. This doesn't even include the rear differential or the beefier 5x114 knuckle/hub assemblies.

Jeremy, I caught your ninja edit :p

[yaya20]

^Don't want to confuse anyone ;)

[ScrapinSTi]

another thing to consider... Ask SkiMobile about his car... if i recall, he blew his stock bugeye tranny, then went to RA gears, blew that... Then went to i believe cryotreated PPG gearbox... Blew that up... Now he's STi 6 speed and never looking back.

[kyle06786]

My 5 speed has no known problems and I am just planning ahead. I'm not really looking to cheap out or cut corners, and I usually like to do things right the first time. I was just curious about the gear set over all, whether it would solve my problems. I didn't deluxe the casing was an issue also as well as shafts.... If I could pick up a 6 speed for around 4k, I would go that route right off the bat. I was under the assumption the tranny alone would be 5k, which is why I wondered about a gear set for thousands less. When every one here who has gone the six speed route recieved their tranny, I'm curious if you have them rebuilt while there still uninstalled? If so what does that run. I know u would be nervous about installing a used transmission as far how good of shape the internals are in. I know most people say there bulletproof, but I'm sure they have some weakness......

[Kenneth Noisewater]

This is one of the reasons I hate the Subaru community as a whole (this is not at all aimed at you Kyle or anyone else on THIS website). They are always looking for the cheap and easy fix, something that will get them the performance to impress people on the internet they don't know, RIGHT NOW!~

This community needs more DO IT RIGHT, THE FIRST FUCKING TIME.

This is not just a problem with the Subaru community its the whole internet/car modding community. 90% of the cars I've seen at meets/shows/parking lots are complete hack jobs.

[Aperture]

This is not just a problem with the Subaru community its the whole internet/car modding community. 90% of the cars I've seen at meets/shows/parking lots are complete hack jobs.

I don't necessarily disagree but rather don't know otherwise. The Subaru Community is the one with which I have the most involvement, so it is what I reference. I KNOW for a FACT that the Subaru Community is this way, I don't know either way about other enthusiasts :)

My motorcycling community isn't like this AT ALL.

[Aperture]

When every one here who has gone the six speed route recieved their tranny, I'm curious if you have them rebuilt while there still uninstalled? If so what does that run. I know u would be nervous about installing a used transmission as far how good of shape the internals are in. I know most people say there bulletproof, but I'm sure they have some weakness......

I can't speak for everyone but the handful of people I know with 6 speeds (JDM or otherwise) have not cracked the transmission open at all, and just installed them. I haven't met anyone that's had a problem, though again, that's not to say that people haven't had them.

[C-Rex]

My motorcycling community isn't like this AT ALL.


I've always found that funny since the VAST majority of riders can't even push a stock bike to it's limits. Let alone one with all sorts of high end go-fast bits. This is not a comment about you, Aperture. For all I know you could be the next John McGuinness. :p

I agree with the consensus here; go six speed. Some people will complain about ratios being to short and "sawing through the gears", but that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. I'm not saying they aren't short but to say that they are to the point that it's a burden is ridiculous. I like the tight gearing. Makes the car accelerate like a catapult. :devil:

I know a 6 speed is a lot of money but it's not like other mods. It'll make your car worth more. Even if you get the tranny in and then have to sell the car, you'll get your money back. There are thousands of guys on these forums that would jump on a WRX with a swapped 6spd. And like I said, once it's done, you don't have to worry about it till you are making very serious power. And I gotta tell ya, if you think these cars are fun now, wait till you have a tranny that can take some abuse. :drive::rocker::cool:

Just open a passbook savings account and put money in it every paycheck. Even if it's only 10 bucks. Then DO NOT TOUCH IT till you have that tranny in sight.

[yaya20]

I can't speak for everyone but the handful of people I know with 6 speeds (JDM or otherwise) have not cracked the transmission open at all, and just installed them. I haven't met anyone that's had a problem, though again, that's not to say that people haven't had them.

Never cracked mine open. Just upgraded some bushings, mounts and replaced the clutch before I installed.

[Rob T]

There are some people who buy used 6 speeds and end up getting one with a broken diff or shifter fork but I don't think it's the norm.
Here is the breakdown for my 6 speed swap
$3200 - 05 STI box with 25k miles on it including clutch/flywheel/pressure plate and shift linkage with all Kartboy upgrades
$45 - Pull type clutch slave cylinder
$50 - 3.9 open R160 rear diff from a 99 Impreza L wagon(converted this to LSD using my old diff for FREE, very easy to do and totally not worth spending ~$400 on one that's already done)
$90 - Auto driveshaft
~$100 - 04 STI axle stubs and seals so I could retain my stock female front axles
$280 - Spiider Dual Mode DCCD controller(not necessary, especially if you get a V7 non DCCD box but nice to have full functionality of the transmission)

[Aperture]

I've always found that funny since the VAST majority of riders can't even push a stock bike to it's limits. This is not a comment about you, Aperture. For all I know you could be the next John McGuinness. :p


Not that I consider myself a bad rider... but I just wrecked by bike two weeks ago today :(

[C-Rex]

Not that I consider myself a bad rider... but I just wrecked by bike two weeks ago today :(

That sucks, but it happens to the best too, I'm sure. Gotta pay to play.

[kyle06786]

yea that must suck to wreck your bike dude. thats what i loved about my last motocross bike i had, or any of the ones i had for that matter, there designed to take a beating. from hammering on the engine to falling 15 ft out of the air into the ground, and still starting right back up, hell even the gearbox on my last bike, which was a 04 kx250f was built tough. i would rarely use the clutch at all when we would race, those bikes are true bulletproof machines, but playing out on asphault is a dif. game

[Aperture]

Oh mine was designed to take a beating, and it would have, but the front wheel hit a biiiiiig rock, HARD.

Everything from the Triple tree tube back is fine. She'll be back up and running in a couple weeks.