2010 Legacy GT - Stage 1 Tune

[Dusty B]

Well up until this year the up and d/p gaskets were the same from all the turbo models... save the oring needed to connect to the tmic from the lgt style outlet. So much for them all being legos I guess...

[jut60]

that inlet looks like a little center material away from a twin scroll

[EFI Logics]

Originally Posted by jut60

that inlet looks like a little center material away from a twin scroll

Yeah, this pretty much proves it's not a twin scroll...

- Pete@EFI

[jut60]

OK i have a quick question just so i can better understand the graph posted way above.
So... does it read that when you are at 60% throttle on the pedal and at 4000 RPMs (for example) you are only at 20.74% of the throttle actually being open???

If I'm reading that properly, wouldn't the person driving the car want 60% to really be 60% and not 20.74%. Or I guess you could have 60% to be 100% just so you don't have to push the pedal all the way down? guessing you would have to ramp up from 0 to 100% open somewhere before you have the pedal pushed to 60% of it's range

another quick question, that map and associated drive by wire equipment replace the throttle cable from the older cars? yes this is probably a bunch of bare bones questions but I just want to make sure I'm not assuming something that's not correct.

[EFI Logics]

My answers are in bold in your quote below.

Originally Posted by jut60

OK i have a quick question just so i can better understand the graph posted way above.
So... does it read that when you are at 60% throttle on the pedal and at 4000 RPMs (for example) you are only at 20.74% of the throttle actually being open???


This is correct

If I'm reading that properly, wouldn't the person driving the car want 60% to really be 60% and not 20.74%. Or I guess you could have 60% to be 100% just so you don't have to push the pedal all the way down? guessing you would have to ramp up from 0 to 100% open somewhere before you have the pedal pushed to 60% of it's range

This is also correct, the correlation of actual Throttle position and commanded can vary depending on driver input, requested torque, and DAM.

another quick question, that map and associated drive by wire equipment replace the throttle cable from the older cars? yes this is probably a bunch of bare bones questions but I just want to make sure I'm not assuming something that's not correct.

Yes it does.

We also had the opportunity to tune another Stage 1 2010 today, the results were just as good. Pete has been booking these cars in like crazy now, so I'm curious to see the average gains of all the 2010's we do.

[jut60]

thanks for the answers, and keep sharing results

[stu1811]

This thread is making it really hard to resist buying a new leg

[ECS Performance]

Originally Posted by EFI Logics

It really depends, but here is what I posted on the LGT board so people can grasp how we obtained the larger torque numbers..

There are several reasons why this car made the torque it did, and I will explain why.

This cars factory calibration was designed around one simple thing - Torque Reduction rather than Torque Production. There are many, MANY variables in the calibration that are cutting back the production of torque for many different reasons, the biggest I believe is to save driveline parts.

Subaru has gotten very smart over the years, and this car is the culmination of a few years of bad calibrations and broken parts. In the factory calibration there are variables that require other variables to achieve a safe setting before the requested amount of torque is allowed. Perfect example of this is using the IAM (Or DAM if your using Cobb) as a torque multiplier as well as an ignition multiplier. If your IAM drops below the perfect 1.00, then your ReqT will then drop along with it. Subaru's theory prior to this vehicle was that dropping the IAM with a high amount of knock will drop the DA (Dynamic Advance-Cobb Ignition Advance-OpenECU), which will drop total ignition timing, ending in a lower, safer MBT. In the end, the IAM may have been dropped, but the ReqT was always the same, commanding the full amount of Torque even if the ECU was commanding less timing due to a knock condition, hence many failed 07-08 engines. The IAM is a major factor here, as major as it was before, it's even more important to properly calibrate the car by NOT normalizing all the ignition tables. This takes time, requires patience and a lot of flashing.

The IAM is not the only thing that can control your ReqT. We have found, using Cobb's pre-release software, that ReqT is also based on Inlet Air Temp, actually reducing torque as inlet temp drops to below freezing. The reason for this is because the ECU will then use the IAT to determine where to read on the target wastegate duty cycle table. If IAT is getting cold, then it will assume that the turbo will become more efficient, the ECU then targets a lower portion of the of the WGDC table where ReqT is lower. This will essentially eliminate boost creep entirely.

One of the biggest factors that is probably felt by the driver is the lack of Torque in the lower gears. This is because there is now a table that requests less torque in the lower gears. The reason for this is probably due to the new 6MT in the car, and we do believe that it's simply not as strong as the older 6MT found in the Spec.B and STi. My theory is that Subaru compromised driveline strength in favor of ECU muscle. We also believe that torque was decreased due to the large amount of engine failures in the 07-08 models. Obviously, this is easily overcome by some tweaking, but I would suggest to work your way into this map as we still do not know the strength of this new transmission.

After all the torque reduction, there is another major issue in the stock calibration, Requested throttle angle. This table at WOT, by default, is commanding 90% throttle to 2000rpm, then drops to only 26% and stays to 28% - 52%until 5200rpm the ECU then commands 86% to redline. This essentially drops the throttle position to nearly 1/2 of what you would want to achieve a higher torque number. I have discussed the theory behind this with some of the guys, and we believe it's emissions related, but that is only theory. The image below is courtesy of Cobb Tuning:



In the end, there are many other factors that play a role in getting more torque out of the car, which include the basics such as Boost and timing. Stock, the vehicles AFR was actually pretty decent, and much more controlled over older year models. We obviously raised boost from the targeted 10psi to 17, bringing boost in much sooner over the stock calibration. Subaru commanded low boost at lower RPM and higher boost as RPM increased. In theory, this was to reduce torque and add some safety to the vehicle overall. I do believe the new manifold is Equal Length, which adds greatly to Torque values of any Subaru. We have seen an increase of nearly 30ft/lbs just by adding an EL header to the car, Subaru picked up on this, and also made the length of the primaries much shorter, also adding to the torque of the vehicle.

Below are my suggestions for those attempting to calibrate these cars.

1. Scale all ReqT tables properly, focusing on WGDC tables so that when the ECU requests less torque, it finds the proper values and is able to adjust torque. This includes increasing and scaling the X-Axis of every ReqT table you can. This should be done in all the 08+ models, but this model is extremely sensitive to this.

2. Adjust the Targeted Throttle table accordingly.

3. There is a ton of torque to be found in properly calibrating the Exhaust and Intake cams. After we set our calibration where we wanted it, we tackled the cam timing, this netted us nearly 25ft/lbs without touching any other table. These tables in stock form are nearly as bad as the throttle tables and are focused around torque reduction as well.

4. I wouldn't suggest any higher than 16.8 - 17psi on 93Octane (Stage1), we did not find any gains by doing this, and also found that in the higher gears (this car has some seriously long gears) the car was prone to pulling timing.

I'm sorry if this post was long and excruciating, but I see it all too often, people post up big numbers without any explanation of how it's done. Although dyno's do vary from place to place, I will say this is the highest Stage 1 torque number we have ever achieved. We are definitely looking forward to seeing a full exhaust on this car, so we can really see what the power potential really is.

Thanks,

Chris
Lead Calibrator - EFI Logics

I found this to be a great read, not having had the chance to play with a 2010 LGT yet! Its nice to see what I am in for. I have been waiting for Cobb to release a map for the 2010 so I could analyze it. Very Informative post!
Thanks.

-Paul @ ECS

[EFI Logics]

Originally Posted by ECS Performance

I found this to be a great read, not having had the chance to play with a 2010 LGT yet! Its nice to see what I am in for. I have been waiting for Cobb to release a map for the 2010 so I could analyze it. Very Informative post!
Thanks.

-Paul @ ECS

The 2010 OTS map will be influenced by the calibration that we created for this car in particular. I just flew back in from Cobb Plano working with Tim Bailey and Christian to get some Calibration stuff ironed out, they will be released very soon, along with an OTS Stage II map that is being created at Cobb Surgeline next week.

We have been selling OTS maps with AP's for the last two weeks quite rapidly, the difference over stock is impressive so the owners are anxious to get the mapping installed.

- Chris

[jut60]

did you guys end up fabing a section of exhaust post turbo yet?